If you want to discover your genetic history and where you came from... you’ve found the right place!

888-806-2588

review of scientific and news articles on dna testing and popular genetics

Gypsy Migrations

Wednesday, October 05, 2011

The Gypsies, or Roma, or Romani (so called because of their concentration in Romania) are a far-flung distinctive population with a lot of diversity. In our database, we have samples of four Gypsy populations, plus samples for Romania, Macedonia and Hungary which you can match if you have even a small degree of Gypsy/Romani.

Gypsy DNA can sometimes be conflated or confused with Jewish DNA because both populations originated in the Middle East and often lived in the same Central European areas in modern times, but true Gypsy matches usually come with Indian, especially north Indian matches, because that's where the Gypsies lived around the 900s before they backtracked into Iran and Turkey and eventually crossed the Bosporus into Europe.

The Gypsy language, Romani, shows a strong Romanian influence but its basic vocabulary and grammar point to a north Indian origin.

The Gypsy religion, on the other hand, is not Indian or Hindu but closest to Jewish, Persian and Zoroastrian forms of monotheism.

"It is not known when or why the Gypsies left India but they were living in Iran by the tenth century AD. The Iranian poet Firdausi (c. 930-1020) wrote of the Gypsies in his epic history of the Iranians, the Shah Nama (Book of Kings), that they were originally a tribe of musicians who had been sent to the ruler of Iran by an Indian king. Once they had eaten the ruler out of house and home, the Gypsies took to the roads. By the 11th century Gypsies were living in the Byzantine empire and soon afterwards were spreading through the Balkans. When the Ottoman Turks began to overrun the Balkans in the 14th century, groups of Gypsies dispersed across western Europe, reaching Bohemia in 1399, Bavaria in 1418, Paris in 1421, Rome in 1423 and Spain in 1425. In the early 16th century Gypsies spread to Britain, Scandinavia, Poland and Russia, but the Balkans remained the main Gypsy centre." John Haywood, The Great Migrations from the Earliest Humans to the Age of Globalization (London:  Quercus), p. 142.


Gypsy Migrations according to Haywood.

Comments

Shari commented on 16-Oct-2011 10:26 AM

According to my mother’s Fingerprint Plus DNA test, both of her parents had Jewish I and Jewish III DNA. One parent had Tatar/Khazar DNA (Jewish IV). India was Mom’s Top World Match. Mom’s mother was genetically Roma-Gypsy. To date there is no genealogical
evidence that Mom’s father was either Roma-Gypsy or Jewish. I’m wondering if the combination of Jewish I and Jewish III along with Indian (from India) ancestry is the typical DNA pattern found for persons of Gypsy-Roma ancestry. Perhaps Jewish I and III could
also indicate only Jewish ancestry, a possibility for Mom’s father’s ancestry. Another possibility would be that her father had unconfirmed Gypsy-Roma ancestry. One or the other parent having Jewish IV DNA may provide a clue. I enjoyed reading GYPSY MIGRATIONS.
I’ve also found the following Internet article to be interesting. Dr. Hancock suggests that Romani had “military” beginnings on the basis of his linguistic and historical research: “An examination of the earliest words in the Romani language suggests a number
of things: firstly that there is little in the original, ‘first layer’ Indian vocabulary that reflects a nomadic or itinerant population, but rather it points to a settled one; and secondly that while there are not many original words for e.g. artisan or agricultural
skills, there are quite a few military terms... ”

From: ON ROMANI ORIGINS AND IDENTITY, Ian Hancock The Romani Archives and Documentation Center 
 The University of Texas at Austin

 http://www.radoc.net/radoc.php?doc=art_b_history_origins&lang=ry&articles=true

Donald Locke commented on 18-Oct-2011 12:23 AM

"Gypsy DNA can sometimes be conflated or confused with Jewish DNA because both populations originated in the Middle East" I would disagree with this opinion that the Romany originated in the Middle East when we clearly originated in South Asia. India,
Sri Lanka, Nepal, parts of Pakistan. I am of the English Romanichal vista "clan" and the Romanichal vista Y DNA results clearly show a high average of our male population carrying Y Haplo Group H1a, more importantly I am the researcher who discovered the relationship
between marker 425 = 0, null to the Romany H1a male lineages. To date, of all the Romany H1a male lineages identified so far, of all those tested to the 67 marker level, 100% were found carrying this same null value marker mutation in common regardless our
surnames, and regardless which Romany vista "clan" we hail from. Romany of England, Scotland, Hungary, Bulgaria have found Y Haplo H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation, which clearly links the Romanichal vista to the Roma vista's of Europe. mt Haplo Group
M5a1 which is also being claimed as South Asian in origin has also recently been discovered amongst the English Romanichal. I am the Admin. of the Y Haplo Group H and Romany DNA projects with FTDNA. To date not a single Asian Y Haplo H1a male has been found
carrying the 425 = 0 marker mutation, this mutation so far is only found among the European Romany male population. And as far as I am concerned, H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation = Romany origins. Donald Locke

stevo commented on 11-May-2012 03:01 PM

my name is steven and i have found out that my real farther was Roma/Gypsy . my my mom was jewish from morroco. there are a group of people in eastern turkey called kerds and the name sindh is a common surname with them. i bealeve they travled to india
backtraped to turkey and then went to germany/auatria and this group beacame the sinti rom of the rinelands. that however is the sinti the other rom im not sure.

Theo commented on 31-Jul-2013 02:45 AM

Hello. While your article is interesting and should be accurate from a scientific point of view, I would like to make some amendments to your cultural references.

Back home gypsies are called Rromi, or Rrom ethnics, and that distinction makes no linguistic sense in Romanian. This leads me to believe they inherited the name from an older distinction. As a native Romanian, to me the gypsy language makes absolutely no sense. I can't understand a thing until they actually switch to a different language.

Mel commented on 17-May-2014 06:00 PM

A few corrections...

The word "Romani" has nothing to do with Romania, as stated in the article above. The word is the feminine adjective form of "Rom" which means man in the Romani language.

Our religion tends to be Christian, not "Jewish, Persian and Zoroastrian forms of monotheism".


Please tell us what you think

Name, website, and email are optional; if we publish your comment, your name will be shown, and may be linked to your website if provided, but the email you enter will not be published.





Captcha Image


Recent Posts


Tags

Ashkenazi Jews Rafael Falk Cajuns 23andme Theodore Steinberg Mary Settegast N. Brent Kennedy Patrick Henry Grim Sleeper Kari Schroeder myths Tom Martin Scroft Kate Wong Kari Carpenter genetics Shlomo Sand John Butler health and medicine Mother Qualla cannibalism Sinaloa Genome Sciences Building Central Band of Cherokees Penny Ferguson haplogroup Z Russia Secret History of the Cherokee Indians Clovis Gravettian culture population genetics Virginia genealogy Holocaust Database Nova Scotia Ireland Sinti Iran Bigfoot prehistory haplogroup J Great Goddess university of North Carolina at Chapel Hill powwows Keros Nature Communications Stan Steiner haplogroup H family history Pomponia Graecina Early Jews and Muslims of England and Wales (book) Gypsies Sam Kean Science magazine Ancient Giantns Who Ruled America Bode Technology Israel Turkic DNA clinical chemistry Stacy Schiff Melungeons Nadia Abu El-Haj Cismaru X chromosome haplogroup U Melanesians hoaxes Bradshaw Foundation Ari Plost Tennessee peopling of the Americas Akhenaten Jon Entine Black Irish Nikola Tesla Lebanon Applied Epistemology Life Technologies ethics Washington D.C. phenotype haplogroup T Virginia DeMarce Peter Martyr DNA Fingerprint Test Waynesboro Pennsylvania European DNA Cleopatra Antonio Torroni palatal tori Rush Limbaugh polydactylism Cherokee Freedmen Thuya MHC BBCNews autosomal DNA Zuni Indians Chromosomal Labs Bode Technology DNA testing companies Slovakia David Cornish Melungeon Union Sir Joshua Reynolds Greeks Irish history Ripan Malhi First Peoples haplogroup B Austronesian, Filipinos, Australoid Harold Sterling Gladwin Normans Charles Darwin Walter Plecker Lithuania Lab Corp Elvis Presley DNA Yates surname Stone Age Current Anthropology Maya Anne Marie Fine Maui hominids Miguel Gonzalez NPR Carl Zimmer M. J. Harper Chuetas Telltown DNA Diagnostics Center Elizabeth DeLand horizontal inheritance Genex Diagnostics Gregory Mendel Cooper surname Muslims in American history Ostenaco Jack Goins Europe Mark Stoneking Etruscans haplogroup C Brian Wilkes Hawaii Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act Indo-Europeans statistics Choctaw Indians Nature Genetics haplogroup D news Phoenix Valparaiso University Sorbs research Arizona State University Richard Dewhurst haplogroup N Leicester Romania Central Band of Cherokee Ananya Mandal Science Daily, Genome Biol. Evol., Eran Elhaik, Khazarian Hypothesis, Rhineland Hypothesis National Health Laboratories Colin Pitchfork Hohokam Indians haplogroup L Zizmer Phoenicians far from the tree George van der Merwede Population genetics Rare Genes William Byrd Mary Kugler Zionism French DNA seafaring Jan Ravenspirit Franz Jews and Muslims in British Colonial America DNA Forums Victor Hugo Anne C. Stone Sonora Magdalenian culture Nancy Gentry Germany Denisovans art history Dienekes Anthropology Blog North Carolina Tutankamun Tifaneg Salt River Taino Indians Roma People oncology occipital bun Bulgaria American history New York Academy of Sciences Asiatic Fathers of America crypto-Jews Oxford Journal of Evolution Melungeon Movement Jim Bentley Roberta Estes Marie Cheng Bill Tiffee Epigraphic Society Pueblo Indians Karenn Worstell Ziesmer, Zizmor Cherokee DNA Project history of science Cismar Micmac Indians Scotland Michael Schwartz epigenetics Daily News and Analysis Panther's Lodge Publishers andrew solomon Joseph Jacobs Amy Harmon The Nation magazine archeology origins of art Constantine Rafinesque Cancer Genome Atlas Colin Renfrew Henriette Mertz Alabama French Canadians Freemont Indians Riane Eisler Majorca Rich Crankshaw ancient DNA FDA Arabia haplogroup E University of Leicester Bryony Jones Melungeon Heritage Association personal genomics DNA databases Joseph Andrew Park Wilson microsatellites population isolates Eric Wayner Panther's Lodge King Arthur Terry Gross Hohokam Asian DNA Richard Lewontin Columbia University Neolithic Revolution Mucogee Creeks Beringia Ethel Cox haplogroup M Kennewick Man Belgium Algonquian Indians aliyah Middle Eastern DNA Richard Buckley human migrations corn ethnic markers Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma Society for Crypto-Judaic Studies Havasupai Indians Navajo Indians Satoshi Horai Robinson Crusoe Old Souls in a New World Irish Central Phillipe Charlier Hertfordshire Navajo Mark Thomas Helladic art Y chromosome DNA Caucasian human leukocyte testing Britain Henry VII Louis XVI George Starr-Bresette Middle Ages Patagonia Nayarit Cornwall Jesse Montes evolution Pueblo Grande Museum Harry Ostrer Daniel Defoe genealogy Richard III Cherokee DNA Henry IV Isabel Allende AP Monya Baker ENFSI Patrick Pynes Irish DNA Olmec linguistics Bering Land Bridge FBI Khoisan Alec Jeffreys haplogroup R Juanita Sims India Sea Peoples consanguinity Philippa Langley Finnish people DNA magazine megapopulations District of Columbia Erika Chek Hayden genetic memory HapMap Bureau of Indian Affairs Pima Indians mummies Janet Lewis Crain Promega Horatio Cushman Altai Turks Puerto Rico cancer mitochondrial DNA genomics labs Paleolithic Age El Castillo cave paintings Cohen Modal Haplotype Wikipedia pheromones single nucleotide polymorphism bar mitzvah New Mexico John Wilwol Basques Luca Pagani Phyllis Starnes Neanderthals genetic determinism Texas A&M University immunology England African DNA Egyptians Arabic Early Jews of England and Wales Anglo-Saxons Douglas C. Wallace Nephilim, Fritz Zimmerman haplogroup W Ancestry.com private allele IntegenX Kurgan Culture rock art giants London Wales Oxford Nanopore Mexico Gunnar Thompson Marija Gimbutas Hopi Indians Rutgers University Y chromosomal haplogroups Family Tree DNA religion Albert Einstein College of Medicine admixture Elizabeth C. Hirschman Donald N. Yates Jewish genetics clan symbols EURO DNA Fingerprint Test mental foramen forensics climate change FOX News Scientific American Italy Black Dutch Hispanic ancestry Tucson Harold Goodwin human leukocyte antigens King Arthur, Tintagel, The Earliest Jews and Muslims of England and Wales Bentley surname research Moundbuilders Melba Ketchum prehistoric art Ukraine Elzina Grimwood Austro-Hungary Colima Barnard College Israel, Shlomo Sand Anacostia Indians ethnicity Barack Obama Fritz Zimmerman Jewish GenWeb Abenaki Indians Chauvet cave paintings Sarmatians American Journal of Human Genetics Jews Sasquatch Discovery Channel Stony Creek Baptist Church Chris Tyler-Smith B'nai Abraham Michael Grant Khazars Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute When Scotland Was Jewish alleles Monica Sanowar Native American DNA Acadians National Museum of Natural History BATWING Joel E. Harris Charles Perou China Wendell Paulson Douglas Preston New York Times DNA Fingerprint Test Les Miserables Echota Cherokee Tribe of Alabama Dragging Canoe bloviators medicine GlobalFiler Plato Jewish contribution to world literature Cave art Sizemore Indians Eske Willerslev Solutreans Jalisco Michoacan methylation New York Review of Books Odessa Shields Cox Mildred Gentry Kentucky breast cancer Russell Belk North African DNA surnames Douglas Owsley Maronites Indian Territory Wendy Roth National Geographic Daily News Stephen Oppenheimer Kitty Prince of the Bear River Athabaskans Charlotte Harris Reese anthropology Discover magazine Bryan Sykes Timothy Bestor Celts PNAS Native American DNA Test DNA security ISOGG Gila River Tintagel James Shoemaker Comanche Indians Anasazi Chris Stringer rapid DNA testing Holocaust Smithsonian Institution INORA Svante Paabo Abraham Lincoln Jewish novelists Jone Entine CODIS markers mutation rate haplogroup X Rebecca L. Cann Smithsonian Magazine Johnny Depp race familial Mediterranean fever Sizemore surname Peter Parham Arizona Ron Janke Richmond California education Teresa Panther-Yates

Archive