If you want to discover your genetic history and where you came from... you’ve found the right place!

888-806-2588

review of scientific and news articles on dna testing and popular genetics

Gypsy Migrations

Wednesday, October 05, 2011

The Gypsies, or Roma, or Romani (so called because of their concentration in Romania) are a far-flung distinctive population with a lot of diversity. In our database, we have samples of four Gypsy populations, plus samples for Romania, Macedonia and Hungary which you can match if you have even a small degree of Gypsy/Romani.

Gypsy DNA can sometimes be conflated or confused with Jewish DNA because both populations originated in the Middle East and often lived in the same Central European areas in modern times, but true Gypsy matches usually come with Indian, especially north Indian matches, because that's where the Gypsies lived around the 900s before they backtracked into Iran and Turkey and eventually crossed the Bosporus into Europe.

The Gypsy language, Romani, shows a strong Romanian influence but its basic vocabulary and grammar point to a north Indian origin.

The Gypsy religion, on the other hand, is not Indian or Hindu but closest to Jewish, Persian and Zoroastrian forms of monotheism.

"It is not known when or why the Gypsies left India but they were living in Iran by the tenth century AD. The Iranian poet Firdausi (c. 930-1020) wrote of the Gypsies in his epic history of the Iranians, the Shah Nama (Book of Kings), that they were originally a tribe of musicians who had been sent to the ruler of Iran by an Indian king. Once they had eaten the ruler out of house and home, the Gypsies took to the roads. By the 11th century Gypsies were living in the Byzantine empire and soon afterwards were spreading through the Balkans. When the Ottoman Turks began to overrun the Balkans in the 14th century, groups of Gypsies dispersed across western Europe, reaching Bohemia in 1399, Bavaria in 1418, Paris in 1421, Rome in 1423 and Spain in 1425. In the early 16th century Gypsies spread to Britain, Scandinavia, Poland and Russia, but the Balkans remained the main Gypsy centre." John Haywood, The Great Migrations from the Earliest Humans to the Age of Globalization (London:  Quercus), p. 142.


Gypsy Migrations according to Haywood.

Comments

Shari commented on 16-Oct-2011 10:26 AM

According to my mother’s Fingerprint Plus DNA test, both of her parents had Jewish I and Jewish III DNA. One parent had Tatar/Khazar DNA (Jewish IV). India was Mom’s Top World Match. Mom’s mother was genetically Roma-Gypsy. To date there is no genealogical
evidence that Mom’s father was either Roma-Gypsy or Jewish. I’m wondering if the combination of Jewish I and Jewish III along with Indian (from India) ancestry is the typical DNA pattern found for persons of Gypsy-Roma ancestry. Perhaps Jewish I and III could
also indicate only Jewish ancestry, a possibility for Mom’s father’s ancestry. Another possibility would be that her father had unconfirmed Gypsy-Roma ancestry. One or the other parent having Jewish IV DNA may provide a clue. I enjoyed reading GYPSY MIGRATIONS.
I’ve also found the following Internet article to be interesting. Dr. Hancock suggests that Romani had “military” beginnings on the basis of his linguistic and historical research: “An examination of the earliest words in the Romani language suggests a number
of things: firstly that there is little in the original, ‘first layer’ Indian vocabulary that reflects a nomadic or itinerant population, but rather it points to a settled one; and secondly that while there are not many original words for e.g. artisan or agricultural
skills, there are quite a few military terms... ”

From: ON ROMANI ORIGINS AND IDENTITY, Ian Hancock The Romani Archives and Documentation Center 
 The University of Texas at Austin

 http://www.radoc.net/radoc.php?doc=art_b_history_origins&lang=ry&articles=true

Donald Locke commented on 18-Oct-2011 12:23 AM

"Gypsy DNA can sometimes be conflated or confused with Jewish DNA because both populations originated in the Middle East" I would disagree with this opinion that the Romany originated in the Middle East when we clearly originated in South Asia. India,
Sri Lanka, Nepal, parts of Pakistan. I am of the English Romanichal vista "clan" and the Romanichal vista Y DNA results clearly show a high average of our male population carrying Y Haplo Group H1a, more importantly I am the researcher who discovered the relationship
between marker 425 = 0, null to the Romany H1a male lineages. To date, of all the Romany H1a male lineages identified so far, of all those tested to the 67 marker level, 100% were found carrying this same null value marker mutation in common regardless our
surnames, and regardless which Romany vista "clan" we hail from. Romany of England, Scotland, Hungary, Bulgaria have found Y Haplo H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation, which clearly links the Romanichal vista to the Roma vista's of Europe. mt Haplo Group
M5a1 which is also being claimed as South Asian in origin has also recently been discovered amongst the English Romanichal. I am the Admin. of the Y Haplo Group H and Romany DNA projects with FTDNA. To date not a single Asian Y Haplo H1a male has been found
carrying the 425 = 0 marker mutation, this mutation so far is only found among the European Romany male population. And as far as I am concerned, H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation = Romany origins. Donald Locke

stevo commented on 11-May-2012 03:01 PM

my name is steven and i have found out that my real farther was Roma/Gypsy . my my mom was jewish from morroco. there are a group of people in eastern turkey called kerds and the name sindh is a common surname with them. i bealeve they travled to india
backtraped to turkey and then went to germany/auatria and this group beacame the sinti rom of the rinelands. that however is the sinti the other rom im not sure.

Theo commented on 31-Jul-2013 02:45 AM

Hello. While your article is interesting and should be accurate from a scientific point of view, I would like to make some amendments to your cultural references.

Back home gypsies are called Rromi, or Rrom ethnics, and that distinction makes no linguistic sense in Romanian. This leads me to believe they inherited the name from an older distinction. As a native Romanian, to me the gypsy language makes absolutely no sense. I can't understand a thing until they actually switch to a different language.

Mel commented on 17-May-2014 06:00 PM

A few corrections...

The word "Romani" has nothing to do with Romania, as stated in the article above. The word is the feminine adjective form of "Rom" which means man in the Romani language.

Our religion tends to be Christian, not "Jewish, Persian and Zoroastrian forms of monotheism".


Please tell us what you think

Name, website, and email are optional; if we publish your comment, your name will be shown, and may be linked to your website if provided, but the email you enter will not be published.





Captcha Image


Recent Posts


Tags

Belgium methylation Melungeon Heritage Association population genetics Cherokee Freedmen Richard Lewontin Joseph Andrew Park Wilson Alabama Les Miserables haplogroup H Harold Goodwin mental foramen Olmec Telltown Irish history El Castillo cave paintings Louis XVI art history bloviators Britain Cave art Solutreans Wales Richard Buckley American Journal of Human Genetics climate change Donald N. Yates Kentucky education Carl Zimmer peopling of the Americas Bigfoot Sinaloa history of science Douglas Owsley Jim Bentley Comanche Indians Anasazi Slovakia Cancer Genome Atlas horizontal inheritance immunology Thruston Tablet personal genomics Bureau of Indian Affairs Columbia University ancient DNA human migrations National Health Laboratories microsatellites Hertfordshire Nadia Abu El-Haj Beringia genetic memory mummies Cajuns Genome Sciences Building Panther's Lodge 23andme Old World Roots of the Cherokee Tucson Khoisan Taino Indians Cooper surname Elizabeth C. Hirschman Arizona FBI Y chromosome DNA Chris Stringer Israel, Shlomo Sand Ostenaco Amy Harmon Patrick Pynes Middle Eastern DNA Anglo-Saxons Fritz Zimmerman Pueblo Indians Stan Steiner Colima Indian Territory China bar mitzvah Constantine Rafinesque Stacy Schiff Shlomo Sand Etruscans single nucleotide polymorphism Wendy Roth Navajo Victor Hugo Alec Jeffreys Sizemore surname ethnic markers rock art Luca Pagani Zizmer Mexico Kari Schroeder Discover magazine Clovis King Arthur DNA Fingerprint Test University of Leicester Mark Stoneking Anne Marie Fine Holocaust Barack Obama Egyptians pheromones Cleopatra Chris Tyler-Smith Odessa Shields Cox Antonio Torroni race Native American DNA Romania Phyllis Starnes Italy andrew solomon Tutankamun mutation rate ethics Ananya Mandal Epigraphic Society Elzina Grimwood Gypsies Melanesians Magdalenian culture Acadians Mark Thomas Janet Lewis Crain clinical chemistry Sea Peoples research medicine Algonquian Indians Nephilim, Fritz Zimmerman Dragging Canoe Mother Qualla Albert Einstein College of Medicine Cismaru Wikipedia African DNA Melungeon Movement Freemont Indians familial Mediterranean fever Charlotte Harris Reese Austronesian, Filipinos, Australoid linguistics Terry Gross Navajo Indians Melungeons Smithsonian Institution clan symbols Kate Wong Khazars Pomponia Graecina Waynesboro Pennsylvania hoaxes Michael Schwartz Johnny Depp George van der Merwede Cohen Modal Haplotype Jewish genetics genetic determinism Svante Paabo Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act Black Dutch Kurgan Culture Smithsonian Magazine Tintagel Asian DNA Lithuania polydactylism Yates surname Russia Charles Perou Oxford Nanopore cannibalism genetics alleles Population genetics Hopi Indians Cherokee DNA Project Thuya Michael Grant Joseph Jacobs Black Irish Jews hominids DNA Fingerprint Test far from the tree haplogroup J Science Daily, Genome Biol. Evol., Eran Elhaik, Khazarian Hypothesis, Rhineland Hypothesis haplogroup W origins of art Patagonia Science magazine Bradshaw Foundation Melba Ketchum Horatio Cushman MHC Sam Kean Irish Central Hohokam Indians England Rafael Falk Anacostia Indians Texas A&M University haplogroup U forensics Leicester Jesse Montes prehistory Stone Age Daily News and Analysis breast cancer genealogy autosomal DNA Richard III Turkic DNA Roma People Mary Kugler Elizabeth DeLand John Wilwol Washington D.C. haplogroup C Sarmatians ged.com Arabia Tom Martin Scroft Ari Plost DNA magazine Indo-Europeans Scotland Genex Diagnostics James Shoemaker Hispanic ancestry Current Anthropology ISOGG Peter Parham phenotype Hohokam Henry IV Salt River Plato Holocaust Database New York Review of Books Jews and Muslims in British Colonial America haplogroup E Asiatic Fathers of America Bryan Sykes Pueblo Grande Museum Nayarit HapMap Moundbuilders health and medicine Jalisco Brian Wilkes Colin Renfrew Chauvet cave paintings Iran Zuni Indians Early Jews and Muslims of England and Wales (book) North Carolina Asiatic Echoes Family Tree DNA Bulgaria crypto-Jews The Nation magazine AP haplogroup Z Mildred Gentry Patrick Henry Bill Tiffee Jack Goins Promega Sorbs Stony Creek Baptist Church Bode Technology Maronites oncology Tennessee family history Valparaiso University European DNA Germany Ethel Cox Helladic art Ukraine Monya Baker Jewish GenWeb Nova Scotia cancer Zionism Sonora Sizemore Indians Richard Dewhurst Altai Turks Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute rapid DNA testing Micmac Indians Ancestry.com archeology Normans William Byrd human leukocyte testing George Starr-Bresette Phillipe Charlier National Museum of Natural History Jan Ravenspirit Franz CODIS markers Erika Chek Hayden Peter Martyr Nature Communications powwows District of Columbia haplogroup D Majorca DNA testing companies private allele Harry Ostrer Marija Gimbutas Secret History of the Cherokee Indians Basques Bentley surname research Richmond California Juanita Sims Riane Eisler Stephen Oppenheimer Greeks India Lebanon religion Miguel Gonzalez Henry VII Israel New York Academy of Sciences Roberta Estes Rush Limbaugh Cherokee DNA haplogroup N epigenetics FDA Chromosomal Labs Bode Technology French Canadians Maya Virginia genealogy Grim Sleeper Douglas C. Wallace Central Band of Cherokee Gravettian culture Gunnar Thompson Ripan Malhi Kari Carpenter Colin Pitchfork Cree Indians David Cornish Old Souls in a New World ENFSI Ancient Giantns Who Ruled America haplogroup T Virginia DeMarce Early Jews of England and Wales aliyah consanguinity Daniel Defoe Arabic Jewish contribution to world literature BBCNews admixture DNA Forums Arizona State University Society for Crypto-Judaic Studies EURO DNA Fingerprint Test Rare Genes Echota Cherokee Tribe of Alabama haplogroup M Lab Corp Cornwall ethnicity James Stritzel Joel E. Harris surnames Phoenicians Native American DNA Test mitochondrial DNA Karenn Worstell haplogroup R Central Band of Cherokees occipital bun FOX News metis Barnard College Nikola Tesla Tifaneg Nature Genetics PNAS B'nai Abraham Gregory Mendel Hawaii Marie Cheng Neolithic Revolution Ron Janke Choctaw Indians Isabel Allende Bering Land Bridge When Scotland Was Jewish Sinti N. Brent Kennedy Rutgers University genomics labs Abraham Lincoln Satoshi Horai seafaring Abenaki Indians evolution Phoenix Dienekes Anthropology Blog Jon Entine Great Goddess Neanderthals Elvis Presley DNA Scientific American Penny Ferguson Keros Mary Settegast news Nancy Gentry gedmatch Jewish novelists statistics pipe carving Harold Sterling Gladwin Puerto Rico DNA Diagnostics Center human leukocyte antigens IntegenX John Butler Middle Ages Cismar Jone Entine myths Timothy Bestor Maui Discovery Channel Y chromosomal haplogroups X chromosome Havasupai Indians Michoacan giants North African DNA Denisovans megapopulations Mucogee Creeks Caucasian Rebecca L. Cann Melungeon Union prehistoric art Douglas Preston Bryony Jones population isolates BATWING NPR Eske Willerslev haplogroup X Wendell Paulson Paleolithic Age Rich Crankshaw Sir Joshua Reynolds Finnish people Irish DNA Ashkenazi Jews Ziesmer, Zizmor Philippa Langley INORA Muslims in American history King Arthur, Tintagel, The Earliest Jews and Muslims of England and Wales Robinson Crusoe DNA security John Ruskamp Anne C. Stone Kitty Prince of the Bear River Athabaskans Pima Indians New Mexico Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma GlobalFiler First Peoples Ireland haplogroup L corn Akhenaten M. J. Harper Gila River Applied Epistemology New York Times university of North Carolina at Chapel Hill DNA databases Chuetas French DNA anthropology Henriette Mertz Russell Belk Kennewick Man Life Technologies haplogroup B Celts Eric Wayner Monica Sanowar Charles Darwin Walter Plecker Oxford Journal of Evolution Theodore Steinberg Teresa Panther-Yates London Sasquatch Panther's Lodge Publishers National Geographic Daily News Europe American history palatal tori Austro-Hungary Mohawk

Archive